This blog first appeared at the Independent. I’ve reprinted it here as it follows on nicely from a discussion in the comments on my last piece.
When a man was beaten or abused by his wife in 17th and 18th Century England, his community would call upon a traditional intervention. The victim would be ritually humiliated, sometimes by being strapped to a cart and dragged through town, or by the whole neighbourhood surrounding his house and beating pots and pans and singing songs of mockery. The tradition was known as the Skimmington Ride, and it was echoed in many other countries. In France, a man would be forced to ride through town backwards on a donkey, holding its tail.
The Skimmingtons are now a detail of history. So too, for the most part, are the comic stereotypes of a hen-pecked husband, cowering in fear of a rolling pin, which long formed a staple target of club comics and saucy seaside postcards. It would be tempting to think the attitudes underpinning them have faded too. Unfortunately this is not the case.
In recent weeks, Coronation Street has featured the volatile relationship between lovable lad Tyrone Dobbs and his heavily pregnant and abusively violent fiancée, Kirsty. The storyline has followed a familiar pattern from both fiction and case study: sporadic but increasingly violent incidents, the abuser balancing mornings of apology and remorse with moments of coercive menace; the victim self-blaming, justifying and excusing the attacks, hiding the bruises and their explanation from friends and family. It’s an old story, the only quirk here being the genders of the protagonists.
Debates about the precise prevalence and severity of female on male intimate partner violence, compared to its male on female equivalent, can quickly become dehumanised and demeaning. It should be sufficient to note there is a wealth of evidence that men make up a notable proportion of domestic abuse victims and that in some cases, the abuse can be severe or even deadly. Last week Ian McNicholl talked to the media about how his own horrific experiences had informed the Corrie cast. His ex-girlfriend is now serving seven years for grievous bodily harm.
This is classic soap treatment of a sensitive and controversial topic, and seems to be performing as expected. Mankind Initiative, the charity which has advised the producers on the issue and which is running the helpline advertised at the end of each show, say they have been inundated, and have needed to install an extra phone line to cope with the calls.
The other valuable service of such soap opera plots is to raise awareness among the public at large. If social media is any guide, Corrie has succeeded in getting the nation talking about the subject. The majority of the messages are sympathetic, but they are interrupted by a substantial minority which veer from the depressing to the downright disturbing.
When Tyrone was assaulted for the first time, I collated just a tiny sample of the tweets from viewers on Storify. They make for grim reading. Two distinct trends emerged. The first was to urge Tyrone to hit her back (often in more colourful language). Leaving aside the morality of using defensive violence or retaliation against anyone, far less a heavily pregnant woman, it must be noted that this is extremely bad advice. The Mankind Initiative and other charities explicitly warn against it, not least because it is likely to result in the arrest of the man, not the woman. There have been too many cases of male victims being arrested when the police arrive, even without making efforts to defend themselves.
The other second running theme was rather more blunt. It could be best summed up in three little letters: L, O and L. Of course laughing at the misfortune of others is one of the engines of the internet, but it is striking just how many such messages specifically attacked Tyrone’s masculinity. Tyrone is a “pussy” or a “faggot” who needs to “grow a pair.” Thus we see the ancient tradition of mocking and shaming male victims of domestic abuse, the brutal policing of patriarchal norms, brought bang up to date; the 21st Century reboot of the Skimmington Ride.
Of course Tyrone is fictional, his woes dreamed up by scriptwriters. The one man in six who will face partner violence at some point in his life is all too real. Many of the mocking tweets will be read by someone who has faced or will face a similar situation. The reactions may go a long way to explaining why men are less than half as likely to report their abuse as women, and indeed why the Mankind Initiative report that many calls to their helplines come not from victims themselves, but from their concerned mothers, sisters and daughters.
Awareness of, and attitudes towards male victimisation have improved considerably over recent years. Resistance to the issue, from an unholy alliance of gender traditionalists and certain strains of feminism, is thankfully on the wane. Coronation Street is performing a valuable role in getting us talking about this topic. Let’s hope viewers are willing to listen.
Women receive harsher sentences for killing their male partners than men receive for killing their female partners. The average prison sentence of men who kill their female partners is 2 to 6 years.
Women who kill their partners are sentenced on average to 15 years, despite the fact that most women who kill their partners do so to protect themselves from violence initiated by their partners.
The average prison sentence for men who kill their intimate partners is 2 to 6 years. Women who kill their partners are sentenced, on average, to 15 years.
Compare the example of Brian Steadman, jailed for just three years in 1995 for killing his wife by hitting her 13 times with a hammer after pleading diminished responsibility because his wife constantly nagged him, with the example of Zoorah Shah who had experienced 20 years of sexual and physical violence from her partner – who then began to abuse her eldest daughter – and was given 20 years for his murder.
First of all, what you say is not actually true. The blog you paste from is mistaken. Look here, and scroll down to pages 16 & 17 for analysis from the Home Office stats department.
But never mind that. The sentence given to Brian Steadman was a disgrace. As it happens the law was changed long ago to prevent it happening again. But what the hell does it have to do with this article? What does it have to do with support, understanding and sympathy for male victims?
Where do I claim that men have it worse than women, either in the average relationship or the courts of justice?
You are refusing to express sympathy or compassion for a man being beaten and abused, because somewhere there’s a woman having an even worse time? Really? Have you any kind of moral compass at all?
Bitethehand, I linked to that Mirror interview with Ian McNicholl in the comments the other day and your response was to flat out deny it had happened, despite the fact that his partner was sentenced to seven years for grievous bodily harm.. You also refused to accept he was sexually assaulted, despite the interview spelling out that his partner would beat him and then demand he have sex with her on pain of another beating. .
You’re like a one-man walking caricature of the most divisive, cruel, hostile and harmful attitudes described in the article.
DENY! DENY! If you can’t deny DEFLECT! DISTRACT! CHANGE THE SUBJECT! Anything but acknowledge that sometimes men can be victims and women can sometimes be abusive.
I suspect if they opened up your torso they’d find a little shrivelled black worm where your heart used to be.
Privilege-denying feminist says what?
I should have said “privilege-denying fauxminist.” Ah well.
Evening BTH
I know there have been some cases where women have killed their partners in self defence and were subsequently treated harshly by the judiciary.And as a result feminists rightly campaigned to have the sentences reduced whilst claiming that men who killed their partners were being treated more leniantly.Trouble is i personally haven’t seen any cast iron proof of that.Whereas i have seen research from the Home Office which suggests that across a wide range of crimes the judiciary actually treats women more leniantly than men.
I didn’t read Ally’s article as suggesting that men who are guilty of either domestic violence and/or domestic homicide are in any way being treated unfairly or otherwise by the judiciary.The main thrust of his article was about the way men who are victims are being treated.And i largely agree with what he had to say.We do live in a society which is underpinned by a cultural belief that ”only girls and cissies cry”.And whilst things are slowly improving for male victims of dv we still have a long way to go before they’re given the same level of support and understanding that females who’re victimised by men get.Additionally what little research that’s available on the subject also suggests that dv in the lesbian population is also a problem and that the female victims are also not getting the level of support and understanding they need.
The fact that every year in this country 90-100 women die as a result of dv compared to 20-30 men isn’t imo a legitimate excuse for ignoring or playing down just how violent and abusive women can also be in their familial relationships.And almost certainly are more likely to get away with it than male perpetrators. Yet any public discussion about this is often stymied by those who either feel that male victims should ”be a man” and deal with it or those who resolutely refuse to believe that it’s a problem.Plus of course therer are plenty of men and women who are quick to see the ”funny” side of a man being abused by a woman whilst being horrified when the reverse is true.Do you remember the headlines that followed the actor Ross Kemp calling the police after he alleges his then girlfriend Rebekah Brookes was being violent towards him ? The guy was treated with barely disguised contempt for having the ”audacity” to call the police rather than being a ”man” and dealing with it himself.Although if memory serves me correctly i don’t remember it generating a debate about how men should deal with abusive women especially as they often get absolutely no support from anyone including the police .It’s like male victims are caught between a rock and a hard place.
I’ve witnessed men being arrested by the police even though they have blood streaming down their faces and the women have barely had a scratch on them.I’ve also called the police myselfe when an elderly neighbour of mine alerted me to a woman in the street bottling her husband and then beating him over the head with a piece of wood whilst threatening to kill him. And i was told by the police that as a woman wasn’t at risk it wasn’t a priority and we’d have to wait until an officer became available.
If the truth be know i wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of women who are victims of dv are either just as abusive themselves and/or are subconsciously attracted to abusive men.But because they’re less likely to kill anyone they get away with it more often than not and are usually treated solely as victims..I aso believe that most abusive men and women were probably abused themselves as children and are damaged people.And that if we’re serious about becoming a less violent and abusive society we’ve got to be as vigourous in challenging abusive women as we are in challenging abusive men.For i believe that abusive behaviour is often inherited and passed down the generations by both sexes.I also think if we;re serious about the sexes been equal then when men complain of being abused by women we must start taking them every bit as seriously as vice versa.
When i said that i wouldn’t be at all surprised if the majority of female victims were just as abusive as the men and/or subconsciously attracted to abusive men i should have also pointed out that the reverse is probably true as well. Namely the majority of male victims may also be either abusive and/or subconsciously attracted to abusive women.I should have also emphasised the fact that even if a woman is just as abusive as a man she’s still likely to come off worse on average.However that doesn’t mean we should ignore or play down the fact she’s also just as abusive.
One final point.DV isn’t just about physical and sexual violence.It’s also about psychological,emotional and verbal abuse.It’s possible to break someone down without laying a finger on them.
[…] a traditional punishment, has been done away with it, but as British reporter Ally Fogg notes, the attitude behind it generally remains unchanged. Sometimes, it feels like we’re still stuck in centuries […]
I’d like to think it’s on the wane, but the condescending mocking and/or absolute rage the subject induces in some people makes me wonder at times.
Men are actually more likely to be the victims of violent assault pretty much across the board. The pat answer to that is that “well yes but it’s usually men doing it to them.” Leaving aside the hidden, unspoken nature of female-on-male violence, which everyone else is afraid to tackle, let’s just take that one on its face: so, if men are more likely to be the victims of violent attack (and more likely to be murdered), we can dismiss this because it’s men doing it? How would that differ from logic which said “98% of all violent assaults on Brits are committed by other Brits, therefore, who cares?”
I have been told we are a civilized society, one question why are we still acting like animals then. If we are human beings then why are men not treated equally in DV, equal parenting. Can or will anyone answer this question.
Our discourse on this issue is so bad, one wonders how many people will read the first paragraph of this article and, paying no attention, assume it means that in times past when a woman was beaten they would put her on the donkey.
There’s a strange sort of Reality Distortion Field that seems to surround the issue of violent women. They aren’t supposed to exist, or if they do, they’re supposed to be freaks of nature, mutants of a sort like a three-headed cat or something. As opposed to everyday human beings you might just know.
[…] Continuing his theme, Ally Fogg writes on female on male violence: […]
Hi Ally
I was wondering whether you know of any research which gives any idea of the proportion of adult male and female perpertrators and victims of DV who were abused as children and who grow up to repeat that cycle of abuse.No worries if you can’t but my gut feeling is that the proportions are quite high.
Hi Paul
It is very difficult to quantify that stuff because there is no standard for what constitutes abuse. There was some research published only a few weeks ago that said emotional neglect and psychological abuse can be more damaging, in terms of future offending and behavioural problems, than physical abuse.
But to quote from myself, a few years ago…
“According to Straus et al, a child who grows up in a family where the adults are violent to each other is almost three times as likely to display violent behaviour as others. Another study found that a child subjected to physical abuse who also witnesses domestic violence is between five and nine times as likely to become an abusive adult. There is also a compelling suggestion put forward by Lonnie Athens that violent adults are in many cases taught to be violent as children, not just by imitation and social learning, but by their carers actively instructing them to respond to perceived insult, challenge or obstruction with their fists.
In isolation, any one of these factors will increase the possibility that an individual will develop violent behaviour towards others, especially their intimate partners. In combination, they make up a robust if inexact recipe for a violent abuser. ”
(from here, where the references are linked: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/10/women-domestic-violence )
Thanks for that Ally.
Probably repeating myself here but i’ve thought for a long time now that if we really want to become a less violent society we’ve got to break the cycle of abuse that’s passed down from generation to generation in families.And for that to happen we’ve got to be much more vigourous in the way we challenge women-as well as men- about their attitides,expectations and behaviour.Unfortunately that rarely happens because women are increasingly being lumped together with children and viewed primarily as being victims.
From what i undestand there are more boys than girls on the Child Protection Register for every category of child abuse apart from sexual abuse..And from what i can gather from NSPCC Research conducted over the last decade women are just as guilty as men of subjecting children to non-sexual abuse.
I’m a bit boss-eyed at the moment so i’ll leave it there for the time being. However it’s an interesting topic.For if abusive behaviour is passed down the generations and abused children are growing up to be either abusive adults or adults seeking out abusive relationships then simply challenging the abuser to break the cycle isn’t going to be enough.And it’s also not going to be enough to only challenge men whilst ignoring or playing down the input that women also have in causing the problem.
AllyF
But what the hell does it have to do with this article? What does it have to do with support, understanding and sympathy for male victims?
Men who beat women have done so because of their superior strength.
And because a tiny minority of women have decided to fight back, you claim that men need understanding and sympathy?
Priceless.
First of all, the men who are assaulted by violent partners are not (always) the same men who commit assaults on women. By your logic, if a man beats a woman in one city, that justifies a completely different woman beating a completely different man in a different city. Really?
Do you apply the same logic to racist murders,for example? Is it to be welcomed when a white child is beaten to death by non-white assailants? Is s/he undeserving of sympathy or justice because black kids have been murdered by white racists in other places?
Ally continues:
I suspect if they opened up your torso they’d find a little shrivelled black worm where your heart used to be.
DENY! DENY! If you can’t deny DEFLECT! DISTRACT! CHANGE THE SUBJECT! Anything but acknowledge that sometimes men can be victims and women can sometimes be abusive.
Capital letters – clearly an annoyance happening here Ally, – but for why?
Ally, just one peek at the Olympics proves that women have demonstrated, that despite men’s historical superiority, they can now out perform them.
So while men continue to beat their partners, some women are now starting to redress the balance.
I’d have hoped as a feminist, you might have welcomed that.
Ally, you continue, psychoanalysing me:
I suspect if they opened up your torso they’d find a little shrivelled black worm where your heart used to be.
Well they might have done but sadly for you my heart is still beating at 65 per minutes.
Ally, just one peek at the Olympics proves that women have demonstrated that despite men’s historical superiority, they can now out perform them.
So while men for centuries have expected to beat their female partners into submission, now, and for the past decade, women have at last demonstrated that they’ll no longer accept second class humanity.
And men like you don’t like it. Yes?
I suggested a long time ago, that some women are now getting their own back. They are strong and they are determined, and they are the majority and they are wonderful.
And sadly Ally, only today when you are posting on their side, we have another male monster in East Croydon demonstrating how a man can prove his superiority over women. And I suspect, were he as literate as you, he’d be in your camp with Men’s For Justice.
Time will tell.
For centuries men have expected to be able to beat their female partners into submission, but now, and for the past decade, women have at last demonstrated that they’ll no longer accept second class humanity.
And that is fantastic.
Whether or not I identify as a feminist, as a human being I not only don’t welcome that, I find it morally repellant.
The answer to male-on-female violence is not more female-on-male violence. It is less violence of all sorts.
I don’t think I know of a single feminist who would disagree with me on that.
That’s an apple pie and motherhood position and would be accepted across the entire political spectrum. We’d all like to live in a violence free world. But sadly men continue to commit the vast majority of acts of violence, both as individuals and as members of organisations and this is what needs to be addressed.
I’m referring in my post to the question of balance of forces. And this will occur only when one side is prevented from being so dominant and this situation is enforced by a social – legal framework that maintains that balance.